I am an Incompetent Creator
A day ago I appeared on an irc chat room which I occasionally attend, #philosophicus on undernet. The channel has experienced a dearth in active chatters recently, and one of the few on at the time, Filanca, suggested that those of who could should log in with multiple accounts to create the illusion of a more populous channel.

I decided to go along with it, for fun, and logged in with another account. I am, of course, MrKurtz and my second was SinkHole7. I'm afraid that my contemporaries type far too slowly for my tastes, and in an effort to alleviate the boredom between their posts, I began commenting on both sides.
The results just flowed out of me. I remember something from the movie Braveheart, in which the Irish guy, in order to speak with a mental equal, claims that he must converse with god. Similarly, Gandalf, in the Two Towers, claims that he was speaking to himself because it is the habit of the old to seek the most intelligent person around them to converse. I guess you could say that was my situation as regards to someone who could both type and think quickly enough to engage me in conversation.

Below is the dialogue. This should really just be taken as any other essay. It's just a matter of format, and of course the notion that this conversation came more freely, with my mind trying to think from more angles than just the one. The only thing I'd change is that I wouldn't have named my alter ego `Sinkhole7'. What the hell was I thinking?
[14:15] *** Falanca [z@nwusr-16829.dial-in.ttnet.net.tr] has joined
#philosophicus
[14:15] Falanca> hi!
[14:15] Filanca> hello Falanca
[14:15] MrKurtz> It's not quite the same
[14:15] MrRobot> i was shanghaied by hihat beaver moustache man and
his pirate friend
[14:15] MrKurtz> In fact, it's entirely other than the same
[14:15] Filanca> now we are more.. it appears as if this is an active
channel
[14:16] MrKurtz> That's a good point...
[14:16] MrKurtz> Here, hold on
[14:17] *** SinkHole7 [froody@ifrit.procyon.com] has joined
#philosophicus
[14:17] SinkHole7> aha!
[14:17] MrKurtz> Ah, look
[14:17] MrKurtz> We're up to eight users, now
[14:17] MrKurtz> Seven, discounting X
[14:17] MrRobot> ergh
[14:18] MrKurtz> Of course, only five are active and four of those
five are redundant, but we need never LET ANYONE KNOW THAT, NEED WE?!
[14:18] Filanca> MrKurtz, should i tell you quality is more important
than quantity?
[14:18] MrKurtz> Filanca : sometimes, quantity results in quality
[14:18] Filanca> ah thats a marxist theory
[14:19] MrKurtz> It is?
[14:19] * MrKurtz runs through his, admittedly limited, marx mentally, searching for 'the more you have, the better your chances of having something worth while'
[14:20] Filanca> yeah... when a quantity reaches a critical point, they propose, a qualitative change occurs... like.. when dissidents number large enough, a revolution occurs and the type of government changes
[14:20] * SinkHole7 munches on some cheese and thinks 'ye gods, I'm merely a fraction of a virtual chatter'
[14:20] *** commonman [frethnkr@216.119.2.130] has joined #philosophicus
[14:20] MrKurtz> Well, yeah, but that's not entirely the same thing. That's more just a 'critical mass' notion, without actually suggesting that the result of the mass reached equals 'quality'
[14:21] SinkHole7> I mean, think about it. I'm not even a real chatter. I'm just a ghost, barely more than a bot, pulled in to be 'filler'
[14:21] SinkHole7> I'm less substantial than kurtz's fucking shadow
[14:22] MrKurtz> So what I'm saying is not 'enough quantity must result in change' but more of a 'larger numbers equal better odds' kind of thing
[14:22] MrKurtz> SinkHole7 : shut it, minion. I created you and I can just as easily DESTROY you!!!!
[14:23] Filanca> MrKurtz: i am not marxist so i wont defend it :)
[14:24] SinkHole7> I'm just saying, what a pathetic existence. Pulled into being by some bored web chatter to mimic living a half assed existence as a chat nerd in the hopes of luring more people onto a channel
[14:24] SinkHole7> it's not what I consider 'life fulfillment'
[14:26] commonman> "mimic living"....I like that!
[14:26] SinkHole7> I am reminded of the play/film 'Rozencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead', in which our two leads, Rozencrantz and Guildenstern are pulled blindly into existence by a mad god (shakespear) and forced to play out simple filler roles they don't understand. So insignificant are these two in character that they fail to be fully developed, even as independent characters, attempting to get by with only vague memories and half notions of their past or motiv
[14:26] SinkHole7> motivations
[14:27] SinkHole7> that's me
[14:27] SinkHole7> a vague reflection of Kurtz's memories and opinions playing out the role of a real being
[14:28] MrKurtz> So what you're saying is that you'd rather not exist at all than to experience a limited existence, compared to some other being?
[14:28] MrKurtz> I mean, seriously, we can all look at something else and say 'that thing exists on a grander scale than I do'.
[14:29] commonman> heads.....how many times to heads come up in the play Rozencrantz and Gulidenstern are dead
[14:29] SinkHole7> no, what I'm saying, what I'm asking, is 'do I exist at all if I'm merely an extension of your personality and desires?'
[14:29] MrKurtz> commonman ; no idea, though I acted in that play
[14:30] *** GodOnAcid [ID@MTL-HSE-ppp162533.qc.sympatico.ca] has joined #philosophicus
[14:30] Filanca> is existance a matter of degree?
[14:31] SinkHole7> mrkurtz : sure, you can see other things in that manner, but you still can draw a distinct line. You are not that being, whatever your relative 'values'. I'm saying that if I'm just a manifestation of your will, can I not be said to not exist at all?
[14:32] MrKurtz> SinkHole7 : ah, but there you make an assumption. Humanity is forever wondering if it is actually independent, as individuals, or if we are all just aspects of the universe, if the sun and I are both just really part of the same whole. In the end, the only real difference between you and I on this level is the assumptions we choose to embrace
[14:33] SinkHole7> kurtz : that's complete bullshit. I mean, sure, you can engage in the rather pretentious intellectual exercise of 'pretending' that you might be merely an aspect of something greater. We both already recognize my role as 'MrKurtz's fucking puppet.', so I don't think the comparison is fair or intellectually honest.
[14:34] MrKurtz> But see, that's my point. After all, it's not really an intellectual exercise. I'm part of the universe. I'm made from it, I return to it. It outlasts me and is more complex. But I don't begrudge it creating me, or doubt my existence as a unique entity, even within it. But here you are, with basically the same deal in relation to me, and all you can do is bemoan your position.
[14:35] Falanca> shit
[14:35] MrKurtz> "do I exist if mr kurtz made me? Do I exist if I'm just part of him? Is my existence relevant if it is shorter or less 'meaningful' than his?"
[14:36] MrKurtz> It's all just a cheap shot at turning an inferiority complex into an appeal for recognition poorly disguised as philosophical conversation
[14:37] SinkHole7> You know what? Screw you. You're talking like somehow our positions are equal. Answer me this. Can you point to your 'creator'? Can you show me the conscious mind that 'forces' you to exist or behave in particular ways? No, you can't. So don't pretend our situations are in any way alike
[14:38] SinkHole7> and as for the 'appeal for recognition', thanks for the empathy. It's nice to see you're so big on trying to understand or sympathize with people in positions less satisfying than yours. You don't think I have some grounds for complaint?
[14:38] Falanca> SinkHole7: from where i sit, u look to be in the same kind of existance as MrKurtz
[14:39] commonman> SinkHole: the "creative" aspect of language use is used for expression....humans can do create them without limits
[14:39] SinkHole7> falanca : that's just what he's trying to get you to think, don't you see?
[14:39] SinkHole7> I'm entirely a subset. It'd be no different than if he made a puppet ouf his clothers and strapped a tape recorder to it
[14:40] SinkHole7> commonman : aha! That's just what I'm trying to get across. Which existence is better, that of a human or that of the words that human creates?
[14:41] MrKurtz> This reminds me of that stupid retarded kid who's suing the doctors that delivered him because he feels he 'shouldn't have been allowed to live'
[14:41] MrKurtz> There's just something sickening about something or someone who points an accusing finger at its creator because of its limitations. I mean, where would it end?
[14:42] MrKurtz> "You didn't make me into an omnipotent god. I HATE my existence and I blame YOU for creating me!!!"
[14:42] That's about as childish and irresponsible as a conscious mind can get, if you ask me
[14:43] MrKurtz> This is probably why so many irc servers have rules against using multiple accounts
[14:43] MrKurtz> They get uppity
[14:43] MrKurtz> It's kind of like 'The Purple Rose of Cairo'
[14:44] Falanca> well existance cant be a matter of degree... so a greater or lesser existance is not meaningful
[14:46] Falanca> and sorry but words dont have existance of their own
[14:47] commonman> greater or lesser existence is meanigful to the stability of class wars.... social taxonomies depend on this confict
[14:47] Falanca> i wish they had... the moment i talk of a sweet girl, she popped up into existance
[14:48] Falanca> is existance metaphysical?
[14:48] SinkHole7> falance : All I am is words. Am I different or the same as MrKurtz?
[14:48] Falanca> SinkHole7 i must admit u 2 look look the same
[14:48] MrKurtz> I disagree. Words obviously exist on their own. We ascribe meaning to them, but we do that to everything.
[14:49] SinkHole7> falance : Exactly. I can't be said to 'exist' at all
[14:49] MrKurtz> If I write a word down, or say it, it exists as a separate physical entity
[14:49] MrKurtz> 'meaning' just describes our interaction
[14:49] MrKurtz> Two people aren't really that much different
[14:50] SinkHole7> kurtz : yes, the word exists as a physical entity, but we can derive a level of independence from individual activity
[14:50] SinkHole7> the word has no impetus beyond its creation and continued static existence.
[14:51] Falanca> MrKurtz, but words dont exist the way men do
[14:51] SinkHole7> if a woman has a child, however, the child shows distinct and active animation and direction beyond the will or existence of its creator
[14:51] MrKurtz> falanca : what constitutes the difference?
[14:51] Falanca> and one must distinguish a word from its sound or written script
[14:52] MrKurtz> No, one CAN distinguish
[14:52] MrKurtz> The word exists just like everything else exists, as a physical entity
[14:52] commonman> words are like the inorganic world, discrete infinity
[14:52] SinkHole7> What distinguishes the merely physical from the 'alive' from the 'higher value of existence' is will and drive
[14:53] SinkHole7> two people can truly act independently. They do not rely on one another.
[14:53] commonman> does not take a child long to figure he can count forever...
[14:53] SinkHole7> without you, your spoken words vanish. Without you, I cease to exist
[14:53] SinkHole7> without me, you'd be essentially the same
[14:53] MrKurtz> How would you cease to exist? There's still a log of you
[14:54] SinkHole7> past record. that would merely indicate that I 'had once existed'
[14:54] Falanca> MrKurtz: words are not self conscious
[14:54] SinkHole7> the same as a tombstone denotes your past existence
[14:54] MrKurtz> Falance ; but my point is how is this relevant? I am not a flaming ball of nuclear gas, but this just differentiates me from the sun. It doesn't make one better or worse
[14:55] MrKurtz> Or more or less independent in our existence
[14:55] MrKurtz> So what is 'self conscious' other than a description of a certain aspect of me, such as 'organic' or 'chemically complex'?
[14:55] Falanca> MrKurtz: no it only makes you different
[14:55] MrKurtz> exactly
[14:56] MrKurtz> So in the same way that the sun, me, a dog and meatballs, to list four examples, are different but equal in our existence, so am I and my words different but equal in our existence
[14:57] Falanca> MrKurtz: sun is a physical entity and can be known by perception. but man know himself without perception, directly. so he is metaphysical
[14:57] SinkHole7> the difference is the link to the source. Words you write down are one thing, but what about the ones you keep in your head? They exist only as a fragment of you. Their existence ISN'T 'independent', as you keep describing things
[14:58] MrKurtz> falanca : that's an assumption. Perhaps all things know themselves without perception
[14:58] Falanca> SinkHole7: a sign of a word is not the word itself... so words are metaphysical, too
[14:58] MrKurtz> falanca : but even if they don't, it's just a descriptor. I fail to see the relevance
[14:58] Falanca> MrKurtz: all things which know themselves without perception are among metaphysical beings
[14:58] SinkHole7> falanca : you're distinguishing meaning, interpretation, as separate from common existence. I agree entirely
[14:59] SinkHole7> I am exclusively 'interpretation'. I am, as you put it, metaphysical
[14:59] Falanca> SinkHole7: exactly
[14:59] SinkHole7> kurtz exists outside of interpretation, so he is physical
[14:59] SinkHole7> therefor my existence is distinct and comparable, on a value level, to that of kurtz
[15:00] MrKurtz> But 'meaning' can be interpreted in any instance
[15:00] MrKurtz> So really, what you're saying is that anything has two levels, one of physical existence and one of metaphysical
[15:00] Falanca> SinkHole7: we must distinguish perceptible part of kurtz (his body) from his metaphysical being.. we may assume he is such a being partially... just as i am
[15:01] Falanca> SinkHole7: yes your existances are comparable
[15:01] MrKurtz> I mean, I suppose you could conjecture that there are physical objects outside of the interpretations of any conscious minds which exist only as 'physical' things, and you might suppose that there are thoughts and ideas in no way manifest in the physical world, which are entirely 'metaphysical', but you can demonstrate neither of these
[15:01] MrKurtz> SinkHole7 : you, certainly, can be shown to have existence in both worlds, just like me
[15:01] Falanca> MrKurtz: hehe... you cornered SinkHole7
[15:02] MrKurtz> So really, we exist on the exact same level, with an obvious and demonstrable physical component, and an obvious and demonstrable metaphysical component
[15:02] MrKurtz> Falanca : 's easy. I always know what he's going to say next
[15:02] SinkHole7> fuck you
[15:03] Falanca> i must leave now.
[15:03] Falanca> u'll think i ceased to exist
[15:03] MrKurtz> Catch you soon :)
[15:04] Falanca> but i'll continue to exist in another world
[15:04] SinkHole7> I'll probably never see you again, but I'll cherish our conversation for the rest of my short 'existence'
[15:04] Falanca> :)
[15:04] Falanca> hope to see you again all
[15:04] Falanca> bye
[15:04] MrKurtz> bye
[15:05] SinkHole7> bye
[15:06] *** Falanca has quit IRC ()